ATR 42 – September 27, 2006 – Voicemail 206-203-3983 – addictedtorace@gmail.com

LAST TUESDAY’S LIVE SHOW
In this episode of Addicted to Race, we share with you the recording of last Tuesday’s live show. On the show, we discussed the gender wars that seem to exist in the African-American and Asian-American communities. Is there really tension between men and women? Is it just hyped by the media? If so, why are we buying into it? How can we find a more productive and complex way to discuss issues like interracial relationships and gender privilege without resorting to accusations and counter-accusations?

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Duration – 1:13:25
File Size – 29.5 MB
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11 thoughts on “ATR 42 – September 27, 2006 – Voicemail 206-203-3983 – addictedtorace@gmail.com”

  1. Jen and Carmen.

    I finally got a chance to download and listen to your show on the gender wars between black men and women. Three callers stood out to me.

    Sparkle. She had called in on voicemail before the show aired and lamented if the discussion was going to center around the old tried and true cliches of black women bashing, and how she hoped your show would give a different take on the perceived gender wars of black men/black women. You and Carmen did an excellent job of dispelling her fears. I especially liked that Sparkle advised black women to move on with their lives and think of positively improving life for themselves.

    Adriana. I liked her concern on how SOME black men can castigate an ENTIRE race of women, all of whom they do not know. It was pointed out by you that the same people who rail against stereotypes directed against them, are sometimes just as quick to lob stereotypes against other people, especially in condeming a whole group of people as being guilty of the sins of a few people of that group.

    Melanie. Her comment brought up the fact that stereotypes do not stay put in one place, but can travel around the globe so fast, via mass media, that before you get to the place you are visiting, the damnable stereotype has beat you there, firmly entrenched in the minds of people who know nothing of you as an individual person. When Melanie went to Europe, she had to face people who projected their preconceived stereotypes on what they thought a black woman should be and act like. And I was sure this was beyond exasperating to Melanie.

    This was my first time tunig into a podcast of your show, and I enjoyed it very much. I especially liked what you suggested for future writers of articles concerning the so-called gender wars: for them to ask themselves what is to be gained from yet another article on something that is so divisive, that the publication of one more article on this subject can serve only to tear people apart, more than bring forth a more intelligible and sane discussion.

    I would like to see more articles on how black men and women are getting along, building solid futures for themselves, their children, their families and their communities.

    God knows we black people have had enough to tear us down. We have more black people in our communities who are doing good for the benefit of all.

    And we never hear quite as much about those black people as we do the supposed “stereotypical” representations.

    All in all, I enjoyed your broadcast and I look forward to “hearing” more.

  2. I think it would be nice and really wonderful if those of us with more leverage and success in the Asian American community can lift up those who need some help.

    It would be nice… not a demand by any means.

    In this vein, it would be nice for Asian American women who dominate the total media portrayal of Asians, with roles written by white men and women, to speak out even nominally sometimes for Asian men. Throw us a bone sometimes, like the two hosts of this show often do, and AsAm men would be ever so grateful.

    I will not disagree that it’s important for Georgia Lee and the makers of “Red Doors” to choose whatever story they’d like to tell. However, Jenny misses the point. There are many great stories told with positive Asian male roles. The problem is that the dominant white media estabilishment in film and books selects largely the lotus flower stories of east vs. west dialectics for mass production palatable for non-Asian audiences.

    What would I like Asian American women to help reenforce? Not Asian male sexuality… The most damaging stereotype is the perception that Asian men, even after many generations in the U.S., repress women more than other races. In fact, I’d argue that it’s probably the opposite. Asian American women in general are give more opportunities to succeed and have rich careers as a percentage of the population than white or black.

    So when the next white guy comes to date an Asian girl to ‘rescue’ his butterfly from the tyranny of the Asian man, we get resentful at the acquiescence of those ‘empowered’ Asian women.

  3. I think it’s fair for for the directors of Red Doors to tell their personal stories and experiences, and reflect their realities, whatever those may be. To deter from those in the sake of making a point would probably ring false.

    As Carmen (I think) put it, the problem is that dialogue gets stuck in the same feedback loop. I question how much it would help if Asian-American women in the US media “represented” more for A-A men, because I’ve found the former are the greatest perpetrators of negative stereotypes of the latter.

    There’s a hard to break cycle between mainstream stereotypes and Asian-American women’s disdain for Asian men. As a white woman who’s dated Asian guys, I’ve found the harshest criticism comes not from other whites but rather from Asian-American women. They don’t care that I’m “taking” their men but rather question “why would you want them in the first place?!”

    The majority of my A-A women friends have never dated Asian men, are friends with a very limited pool of Asian guys, and make these wide assumptions with little or no foundation in experience. I’m always so baffled by the assumption that Asian men treat their women badly, because my experience (of both friends and boyfriends) is that they are the most liberated and considerate men to be found, and the least threatened by strong women.

    There also exists a significant gender conflict for Hispanics, but that is as fueled by issues of machismo and degrees of assimilation as much as social stereotypes.

  4. I vehemently disagree with your assessment of Red Doors. I’ve seen it as part of a study group and many Asian men aren’t angry at your simplistic suggestion of Asian men “not getting any” but rather the image of yet another Asian female with an white male. The role could have been played by anyone, black, Asian, Latino, etc. and it’s just another slap in the face because it’s a showing complacency of, yet again, Hollywood’s standard of interracial relationships.

    Hell, I would have been happy if they replaced the whites with Latinos. It would matter anyway since the” whiteness” wasn’t brought up.

    As I read through the rest of the site, I’ve noticed a large amount of sympathy towards Asian females at the expense of Asian males. What will it take for Asian women to finally understand that they’ll never shake racism and stereotypes by leaving Asian men behind?

  5. Additionally, why was this podcast, along with most of the other podcasts, focus mostly about the black community? You hardly focused on the problems in the Asian community?

    Is it a subtle attempt to tone down our “whining?”

  6. Ray, I think it was noted in another post that this was a call-in show, and that few Asians called in or left messages. Lord knows your “whinning” should not be toned down but addressed. It just seems like there aren’t many Asians making enough noise about things they need to stand up for. Seems like.

    I went to a seminar for the betterment of the Asian community (the Asian guy from Law & Order: SVU was the keynote speaker), and mostly black and white people where there; just a handfull of Asians despite my city’s not-so-small Asian population (one of our largest high schools was listed with a 20% Asian student population). I went to a rally for peace in Burma, again, mostly blacks, whites, and Mexicans. To this day I can’t recall even seeing an Asian. When things were getting heated with the whites and Asians at that high school, it was the black parents of the students with Asian friends that made the most fuss, then the situation was dealt with. This has happened more than once within a two year span.

    So, I think the question should be, “Why does it SEEM like Asians are ‘being quiet’?”
    I emphasize SEEM, because I can’t prove it to be acurate.

  7. Ooh, good point about “leaving Asian men behind”. Some people do this. They have the power, the spotlight, the opportunity to stand up for others, to be the voice, and they don’t. But, if by “leaving Asian men behind” you are talking about “dating”, well, that can’t always be controlled. Even in the media, who’s to say that some of these women haven’t stood up for Asian men?

  8. I don’t think he meant “leaving Asian men” behind in the idea of dating interracially but actually standing up for Asian men in general.

    I wrote in the comments section about, directed towards hapa peminist, that exhibits *exactly* what I’m talking about.

    “You’re not fighting the power if you’re dissin’ the brothas.”

    I’ve faced more racism and stereotyping from holier-than-thou Asian American women than White men (who are supposedly the most racist demographic). I’ve seen more white women stand up for Asian men than Asian women. Instead of dismissing Asian male concerns and playing them off as bitter as soon as they voice them, maybe Asian men wouldn’t be directing some of that “anger” towards Asian women.

    The door swings *both* ways.

    I understand how Asian women have issues and should be assisted. I’m also willing to accept that they face more problems than Asian men. However, what I refuse to accept is that they’re not the only group with problems and it’s annoying how all the sympathy goes to them while Asian male issues are trivialized down to “oh, they’re just mad that they can’t get pussy. Stop being lame and help Asian women!” It’s bullshit and I think someone needs to call the hand.

    I got news for you. All of the Asian men that are bitter continue to be bitter for precisely that trivialization. It’s no different than when white society tells Asians, in general, to “stop complaining.” I refuse to. I will be acknowledged.

    Case in point, I did a search on this whole site for “Asian men” and came up with three results. I’m sure there are more than that but it’s still pretty, well, pathetic.

  9. To be fair, we barely touch upon the demographic that is having the most amount of problems, Arabs and Arab Americans as well as Latinos, specifically Mexicans.

    I’m not trying to take the spotlight from anyone else and put it on another as all issues are important but I think it would be a mistake to not focus on other racial problems.

  10. Good point. Although, those groups of people would need to participate in the discussion, as none of us outside the groups truly know their experience or history.

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